FCP X: Native vs. Optimize vs. Proxy Media
There’s a lot of confusion about the three different media types in Final Cut Pro X: native, optimized, and proxy.
Native media is the format shot by your camera. For example, AVCHD, H.264, DV, and HDV are all examples of native media formats.
Optimized media is always ProRes 422. When the “Optimize Media” checkbox is checked during import, FCP X transcodes, which is a fancy way of saying it “converts,” your media from its native format into Apple ProRes 422.
Proxy media is always Apple ProRes 422 Proxy. Proxy media creates a reasonably high-quality media file, but at about 1/4 the size of ProRes 422.
When you import media from either a file or camera, you have the ability to optimize it, or create proxy files.
You also have the ability to convert media after you’ve imported the files. Simply select the clips in the Event Browser that you want to transcode and select File > Transcode media.
Either way, here are your options:
* If nothing is checked. Final Cut imports the media and edits it in camera native format. This generally provides the greatest savings in storage space, but often requires faster computers to avoid a performance hit.
* If optimize is checked. Final Cut converts the camera native format into ProRes 422. This provides the best possible performance and image quality, but requires additional storage space (roughly 60 GB per hour of material).
* If proxy is checked. Final Cut converts the camera native format into ProRes 422 Proxy. This provides much better performance than editing camera native with reasonable image quality, while requiring less storage space than ProRes 422 (roughly 18 GB per hour of material).
What’s “reasonable image quality?” Generally, the higher the bit rate of the media, the better the image quality. For this reason, since ProRes 422 has a much higher bit rate than ProRes Proxy, the image quality is potentially better. This is especially true if you are doing color correction, green-screen keying, or lots of image manipulation. However, if you are simply capturing and editing consumer-grade camera images, without many effects, you may not see any quality difference at all between optimized and proxy media.
Creating proxies or optimized media always makes a copy of your camera source files. Both optimized and proxy media will have better performance than the camera native formats.
You can select one option, both, or none. Depending upon which options you select, you could have up to three copies of your media files stored on your system:
1. Camera native
2. Optimized
3. Proxy
Duplicate media files are not necessarily a bad thing and FCP X will track them properly; however, multiple copies do require more disk space.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Not all camera formats require optimizing. If the Optimize option is grayed out, it means that the camera format is already optimized and would not benefit if converted into ProRes 422. (DV and AVC-Intra are two examples of already-optimized media formats.)
NOTE: For the geeks among us, optimized formats are those that are stored in an I-frame format.
* If saving storage space is more important than editing performance or export speed, then edit using camera native formats.
* If performance or image quality are more important than storage space, optimizing media is the best choice.
* If you have an older system, or limited hard disk space, ProRes 422 Proxy will probably provide better performance than editing camera native formats.
My general recommendation is to always optimize media. Purchasing an extra hard disk will more than pay for itself in the time you save during editing.
SWITCHING BETWEEN FILES
To switch between native, optimized, or proxy files in your Project go to the Final Cut Pro > Preferences > Playback tab.
Click the radio button for Proxy to edit using Proxy files.
Click the radio button for Original/Optimized to edit using anything else.
You can change this setting whenever you want, however, you can’t have a mix of some Proxy and some Optimized files in the same Project at the same time. Proxy and Optimized files are stored in different folders in the same Event folder.
(By the way, I thought whether you selected High Quality or Better Performance in this preference pop-up menu, your output quality will always be the same – high quality. However, see Jason’s comment below.)
Related posts:
- FCP X: Working With Proxy Media
- FCP X: Improving Performance
- FCP X: Sharing Projects
- Managing Render Files
- FCP X: Match the Sound of Two Clips
Comments
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[...] C’è un po’ di confusione sulla differenza tra materiale nativo, ottimizzato e proxy. Chi lavora nel video deve conoscere queste differenze e padroneggiare questi formati. Larry Jordan ci spiega tutto. [...]
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[...] video che suggerisco vivamente di leggere prima di mettersi a lavoro. Consiglio inoltre di leggere questo articolo in cui Larry Jordan spiega che differenza c’è tra materiale nativo, ottimizzato e proxy. Mi [...]
Hi there
The ONLY part of this article I think needs a further look is your very final sentence. I have tested this a few times with footage that was originally 1080p (one project from a Canon XA-10 AVCHD camera and the other from a Nikon D7000 DSLR).
Anyway, long story short, If I exported an H.264 file at the end, IF I exported with the High Quality settings selected in Preferences, then I got a great looking file 1080p file. However, IF I exported with the Better Performance (i.e. Proxy) settings, I did get a 1080p file, but it was noticeably (if only a bit) blurrier/softer. It looked as if it had taken the 1/4 res proxy files and blown them up to 1080! Also, if I chose to export the project as “Current Settings,” the final output file’s codec would say ProRes 422 if I had chosen the High Quality setting and ProRes 422 Proxy if I had chosen the Better Performance setting (again, both 1080 files, but the 1080 one noticeably blurrier!).
I double checked this with some other FCPX Trainers and they seemed to have noticed this as well and say that’s how Apple programmed it. One even said it’s described that way in the manual (although i couldn’t find it!). If anyone has any more input on this topic, please let me know!
P.S. Hope me first sentence didn’t come off as snide. I love your work and webinars, I just read this and have had many frustrations with it so I had to reply!
Hi Jason
So what you are meaning is that it has not only a “playback” preference parameter but more a “playback & export” parameter …
Thank by the way
Olivier
Auto-replay
the answer in further down in the comments …
sorry
Jason:
Excellent comment – and I never object when someone has a better idea. Otherwise, I’d never learn anything!
Thanks for sharing this.
Larry
I suffered a weekend of anxiety wondering why Final Cut Pro X suddenly stopped importing any files whatever. I was almost ready to delete the program and reinstall when I figured out the problem. If there is a mismatch in your preferences between Proxy playback and Optimized import, you’ll get that frightening red screen every time. I made a brief YouTube video that displays the problem and quick solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5iZcG8bddE
David Mills
Huntington, WV
Thanks – the ability to quickly switch between proxy and optimized media is a good thing…. once you understand what it is doing.
Thanks for posting the video.
Larry
Hi Larry,
Is there a way to “offline” using proxy then do an “online” edit/output using Prores 422?
Thanks.
-Jeff
Are you suggesting clicking “better performance” rather than “high quality” in the playback quality option will negatively effect your output. I assumed the choice was only for playback, and did not effect output. But am I wrong? I think Jason is saying the softening is only in regards to using proxy media. I edit mostly in native with no trouble. Here’s what the FCP-X help says.
Playback
Use proxy media: Click this button to use medium-quality proxy media (converted to one-quarter resolution) rather than full-resolution media for playback. Choosing this option increases playback performance, but the video quality is lower. In Final Cut Pro, proxy media is in the Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) format.
Use original or optimized media: Click this button to use the optimized media for playback. If optimized media is not available, Final Cut Pro uses the original media for playback. In that case, use the Playback Quality pop-up menu to choose whether to always use the highest-quality video for playback or downsized video for better playback performance. In Final Cut Pro, optimized media is in the Apple ProRes 422 format.
Michael:
I just re-read Jason’s comment – after getting your comment. Proxy media will not export with the same level of quality as optimized or native media. If that’s what Jason is doing, I am not surprised there is a difference in quality.
According to Apple, there should be no difference in quality when exporting the same media with the preference set to high quality or better performance. The difference may be visible during editing, but not during export.
Proxy media is used to reduce file size and for some slower systems. In general, I don’t recommend using it as most hard drives today are fully capable of handling most media formats – especially when optimized to ProRes 422 – with no problems.
Larry
Hi Larry and Jason,
I wanted to get a better understanding of Proxy, Original, and Optimized. So I decided to conduct a little test. It only takes a few minutes to do. Typing up the comment here, took much longer than the actual test.
Your article http://www.larryjordan.biz/fcpx-working-with-proxy-media/ was very useful.
I shoot with the Canon 5Dm2 which uses H.264. I’m not sure if this has anything to do with it.
I am unable to replicate the file size difference and file quality difference that Jason describes when selecting High Quality vs. Better Performance in playback.
I imported a single file with proxy checked and put it to a 1920x1080p 23.98 timeline.
I exported using Share>Media Export – using Current Settings for Video Codec
I exported the following of the same clip but changed only the playback settings in Preferences:
1. Proxy Playback
2. Optimized/Original – High Quality Playback
3. Optimized/Original – Better Performance
Here are the specs when clicking get info in the finder on each file after export:
1. Proxy Playback
File Size: 66.8 MB
Dimensions: 1920 × 1080
Codecs: apco, Linear PCM, Timecode
Color Profile: HD (1-1-1)
Duration: 00:15
Audio Channels: 2
Total Bit Rate: 35,938
2. Optimized/Original – High Quality Playback
204.6 MB
1920 × 1080
Apple ProRes 422, Linear PCM, Timecode
HD (1-1-1)
00:15
2
110,178
3. Optimized/Original – Better Performance Playback
204.6 MB
1920 × 1080
Apple ProRes 422, Linear PCM, Timecode
HD (1-1-1)
00:15
2
110,178
Just to be sure, I created a new project with the same settings as above. But this time, I imported original only. I did not check optimized or proxy.
Then I put it to the timeline and exported the same 3 things in preferences:
1. Proxy Playback
2. Optimized/Original – High Quality Playback
3. Optimized/Original – Better Performance
The results were:
1. Proxy Playback
-Missing Media since no proxy was created
2. Optimized/Original – High Quality Playback
Same exact output specs as above
3. Optimized/Original – Better Performance
Same exact output specs as above
I could not visually see any quality difference between the HQ vs. Better Performance.
There is an extremely noticeable difference between the Proxy Playback Output and the other files. Not subtle at all.
Just as a final check, here are the specs on the camera original media.
83.9 MB
1920 × 1080
H.264, Linear PCM
(1-1-6)
2
45,222
I also just checked the Proxy File that was created and here are the specs:
31.4 MB
960 × 540
apco, Linear PCM, Timecode
HD (1-1-1)
00:15
2
16,903
My test is in line with Michael’s comment and his quote of the FCPX manual.
The proxy file created by FCPX and the export using the proxy file are very noticeably lower in quality. There is no question that it is lower.
Maybe Jason’s results have something to do with AVCHD vs. H.264 native formats, though it seems that FCPX is exporting from the original media to ProRes 422 in Better Performance and HQ.
Jason, can you do a similar test? It might help out Nikon shooters or other AVCHD folks.
Thanks.
-Jeff
Jeff:
This is an outstanding write up and in-line with what I would expect.
You should see NO difference in image quality when exporting caused by the performance settings in preferences. I also agree that Proxy media will yield markedly lower image quality – which is also to be expected, as Proxies were created for small file sizes, not image quality.
An excellent report – Thanks!
Larry
OK, so I see what’s happened here and it’s going to make me look like 50% idiot, but not entirely lol!
I used the wrong language at one point in my original post (sigh). When I said “…IF I exported with the Better Performance (i.e. Proxy) settings…” this is where I went wrong in my wording. The whole time, my Playback Quality WAS set to High Quality. I was only flicking the switch between “Use proxy…” and “use optimized/original…” So I’m sorry for sending some of you on a wild goose chase!
BUT that doesn’t change my original issue I had, and I think it’s just something I find frustrating about how the program is designed: I like to edit my projects using proxy clips so that I’m rendering and generally buzzing through my project as quickly as possible. It just irks me that EVEN THOUGH the proxy settings are supposedly just “Playback” settings, it is also technically EXPORT settings in a way as well. So it’ll take your 540-lines of resolution video (the proxy clip) and blow it back up to 1080 if Proxy playback is enabled. It’s just my humble opinion that when I hit export, it should always be choosing to export using the original or optimized media and that the ONLY thing that should influence the output quality is what I select in the Share menu, NOT what I what playback setting I have selected in Preferences!
Anyway, sorry for the confusing language in my original post. Part of my almost didn’t post this out of embarrasment!
Jason:
Not to worry – I just discovered one of my FCP X training files had a mistake in it – so I spent this morning sending email messages to hundreds of people telling them I messed up and and pointing out where they can download a corrected file….
However, I disagree with your export thought. Here’s the problem. In order to export high quality files, you need to have access to them. This means that you would always need to carry both Proxy and high-quality files with you, even if you were only editing Proxies.
This would require vastly more hard disk space.
Proxy files were designed to provide very small file sizes – with a resulting trade off in image quality, which you noticed. They are designed to travel separately from the high-quality files, then easily reconnect when the time comes to export.
Larry
Well, that’s a good point. So my question is this: How is that workflow supposed to work in theory?
For example, if I have a desktop and a laptop, and my media files (i.e. Final Cut Events folder) are on a media (2nd) drive inside my desktop, but I needed to travel and continue editing, then I would copy the Projects and Events folder MINUS the original or Optimized folders inside of the Events folder to an external drive so I could plug it into my laptop and work with just the proxy files? And then when I’m back from my “travel,” I would just overwrite the old Projects folder on my desktop with the one from my external drive? Did that make any sense? Ha, I hope so.
Larry;
Could you please qualify “reconnect”.
You said:
Proxy files were designed to provide very small file sizes – with a resulting trade off in image quality, which you noticed. They are designed to travel separately from the high-quality files, then easily reconnect when the time comes to export.
My mind is stuck on the concept that after editing FCPX goes back to the original files (h.264) grabs the portions edited in and uses them for the final export.
I am 99.9% sure this is not correct but in my defense I have trouble with the entire transcoding procedure. That is transcoding from h.264 to ProRes and back to h.264. In this technological day Apple can not edit h.264 natively? I frequently hear terms like “reconnect” in the training videos and question just what is it that you are “reconnecting” to?
I am old, 64, and this stuff helps to keep me young so please bear with me.
The only dumb question is the one never asked.
Thanks for your patience
kent
Kent:
Let’s take this in steps.
1. Transcoding simply means to “convert” from one video format to another.
2. FCP X can edit H.264 natively, but it is not an efficient format. This means that if you are doing a lot of effects or color correction, you can do it – but it will be done faster and better if you convert (transcode) your H.264 video into something more friendly.
3. For highest quality, simply optimize the file on import. For smallest file size *also* select Proxy.
4. Proxies are used for editing using small file sizes. Optimized media is used for outputting at highest quality. In general, for H.264, you are wisest to optimize (which creates ProRes 422 version). If you need small file sizes – say for editing on a laptop – then also create Proxies.
5. FCP X makes it easy to switch between Proxies and Optimized media. Or between Proxies and source H.264 media.
Larry
Thank you so much for this post. I always convert my files to Proxy (formerly using MPEG Streamclip) and now on import on FCPX. I always say with editing, “you will pay now or you will pay later on export.” Personally, I like to pay early.
Larry,
I have just read through your article as well as all the comments. I have been talking to a friend about this before I found your article so here is what I have been doing. Before I import my media into Final Cut X, I would use compressor to convert it to ProRes 444 format. I was unaware of what exactly optimize feature of FCX did. My question is when I go to import the ProRes 444 files into FCX why can the optimize option still be checked? If I do check this box it seems to begin converting the footage again. Is FCX making another ProRes copy and storing it in the project folder. This would seem to take up a lot of unnecessary space if that was the case. I’m new to this editing thing so thanks for all of your help. Your articles are very useful.
Jonathan
In my post I said ProRes 444. What I meant to say was ProRes 422. Sorry for the confusion.
Jonathan
I have the same question as Jonathan.
Is it better to use Compressor to convert to ProRes first, or let FCP optimize it for us? What’s the difference?
Becks & Jonathan:
If you are using FCP X, let FCP X convert to ProRes for you.
If you are using FCP 7, and you are using Log & Capture, you can let FCP 7 convert to ProRes for you.
If your project is large, take advantage of the background processing Compressor provides and convert using Compressor.
It is not a matter of quality, but of saving time. In all three cases, image quality should be essentially identical.
Larry
Larry,
Okay. I will probably let FCP X do the converting then. Thanks for the help
When you optimize your original media what is happening? Is the original media transcoded to 422. Or are you getting a new version, 422 and keeping a copy of the original media as well? In effect have two copies of the same file, one 422 one original?
Michael:
Correct. Transcoding makes a copy of your original media using the ProRes 422 format.
Larry
Hey Larry,
After operating fine for months with only optimized media, I finally met my match and now work with Proxy Media. So, as you state above, I now have three different versions of the same footage. I’m just starting to feel the squeeze of storing all of it.
Do you see any major issues with deleting the original media? I don’t like to do it…but do I really need it after it’s optimized??
Anyone’s thoughts are welcome.
Thanks,
Brian
Brian:
I am VERY reluctant to ever recommend deleting camera source files – just in case. However, it is true that once you have optimized your media, your camera source is no longer needed.
Larry
I would buy more hard drives. They are currently around $110 for 2TB. Plus, you should be backing everything up.
I learned this lesson the hard way. I was not properly backing up and lost literally 2 weeks of time trying to recover mission critical data off one drive that went bad.
I am trying this as a back up plan. I have a 2006 Mac Pro with 4 hard drive bays. 1 drive is system drive. 1 drive is media drive. 1 drive is a Time Machine of the system. 1 drive is a Time Machine for the media drive.
Not perfect since I don’t have an off-site back up in this scheme, but better than nothing.
For a few hundred dollar investment, you save yourself a lot of heartache and hair pulling.
Plus, if your system is fast enough, you may not even need to optimize the footage or use proxy. My current workflow, I don’t even convert to optimized media. Editing works fine, no hangups or minimal slowdowns. I wish FCPX would allow me to do the following: with the click of a button when I have picture lock, only optimize the timeline and keep all the cuts. Then I could bring that picture locked edit into some sort of color correction software.
Maybe one day.
Also search for Larry’s article on maintaining hard drives properly over the course of a year.
Data floats away off the disk if not fully cycled through.
I got very used to using Canon’s E-1 plugin (Log and Transfer) to audition clips, occasionally set in/out points, and then transcode them to ProRes 422 for editing in the timeline. This helped me sort through the raw clips and keep my library down to only the clips I needed (and also helped with disk space as I was only transcoding the clips I actually wanted to use).
Yesterday I got the FCPX trial, and am considering upgrading to it, as it seems to better use my MBP’s power (GPU, etc).
I’m wondering, though, what workflow do you guys use to most closely emulate the Canon E-1 plugin?
The closest thing I can come up with is the following, but I’d like some advice on whether it’s really doing the same thing.
So I import the clips from a shoot into an “Event”. I uncheck “copy media” and uncheck “optimize clips”. I then preview the clips in the library, and when I know which ones I want, I right-click on them and hit transcode, and then optimize them from the native Canon format (h.264) to ProRes 422.
This seems to save me from having to transcode every single clip on the card (which I may not use), though it’s not quite as clean as using E-1 was. Is this a pretty solid approach?
On that note, since Final Cut Pro X can work natively with h.264 files, is there a *need* to transcode to ProRes 422 in this situation?? I’m assuming editing/effects/etc work better on ProRes, but I have nothing to base that on.
Any advice about whether I’m doing this correctly to match the old workflow would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Oh, one thing I forgot to ask, too: I did notice that when transcoding from h.264 to ProRes in FCPX, the transcode seems quite a bit slower than Canon’s E-1 plugin did in FCP7. Is this just me or is it really a slower transcode?
Richard:
I would recommend a different workflow.
When you are reviewing your clips in the Import window – only import the clips you want and optimize (transcode) on import. Since you can bring in clips at any time, this saves importing clips you won’t need, and, as the optimization happens in the background you can begin editing, even before the optimization is done.
As for speed, FCP X is probably as fast as Canon – EXCEPT Canon is running in the foreground and you can’t start editing until the transcode is complete. FCP runs in the background and you can start editing immediately, regardless of how long the transcoding takes.
The key is to only import the clips you need, rather than import everything and transcode later.
Larry
Hey Larry,
Thanks a ton for the advice. I suppose that does make more sense, and does mirror the old E-1 workflow more closely. The only downside, unless I’m doing it wrong, is that the FCPX clip import window doesn’t offer much in the way of scrubbing or in/out points; it’s just a Finder window pretty much. Maybe the “Camera Import” is different, but seeing as I’ve already copied everything to my external HD, I wasn’t able to try that.
Regardless, it’s good to know that everything else is pretty much the same, and transcoding with FCPX is pretty much the same concept as using Log and Transfer.
I’ve heard some people say that the thing that’s NOT the same is that L&C would import timecode data, but I guess my workflow hasn’t yet made apparent why that should matter (I’m guessing for audio reference).
Richard:
I’m not sure what you mean in that FCP X allows you to scrub every clip in the Camera Import window, as well as set In and Out points on a clip.
Larry
Richard:
Sorry for not being precise. When you import a file, you can’t preview it. When you use import from Camera, which is how you would bring in your raw camera footage, you can preview, scrub, and mark Ins and Outs.
Larry
Ahh, import from camera; much better :]
Thanks for the advice and keep up the great work; your site is an outstanding resource!
Hi Richard and Larry,
I never thought to use import from camera for the Canon footage. I just use import files. I will definitely try import from camera next time.
My current workflow was like what you stated Richard. Import files unchecked optimize and unchecked copy media.
But I just edit the native H.264′s. I have not seen a major performance hit on my Mac Pro 1,1 (2006 with upgraded graphics card) and no major performance hit on my 2011 Macbook Pro. You do get hit on the effects side. Once you add a couple of effects on clips it is not nearly as fast as the ProRes files.
I am thinking on my next project, I will do as I have done above. Once I have picture lock, I will duplicate the project and convert only the timeline to ProRes files. Then I can do effects and color correction with ProRes. I am not sure if this will have the intended result of only transcoding the files in the timeline or all the files in the event.
Richard, are you keeping copies of your camera original on your hard drive somewhere? I hope so. Just in case you need them in the future.
If I get a chance, I will post my findings on that. Unless someone already knows the answer to that. It is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
I have found the information here very valuable. I am new to video production. I am looking at a big project, where I will be using 4 cameras to shoot about 30 hours of classroom activity. So that’s 120 hours of video. That’s a LOT of hard disk space. I am going to be away from home, with just my MacBook Air, so will be using USB external drives just to import the video (will edit it later with firewire drives). Storage is a big concern, obviously, with so much video. I figure I will just import it with no optimization or proxies at first, then deal with the stuff later. I can create optimized and proxy versions after import, right? I am thinking I may invest in a new iMac, and that this may be fast enough to deal with the original files so that I don’t have to make optimized versions. In the article above, you say working with original files is advantageous in that it saves disk space. The downside then is the editing process is slower? Is that all? Is there any hit in video quality?
There are three potential problems in your workflow:
1. The USB drives may not be fast enough. Do a test – capture 15 minutes of video – if you don’t have any problems and no dropped frames you can use your USB drives for capture.
2. Yes, you can optimize your files later. I don’t see a need to create proxy files for your project.
3. If all you are doing is straight cuts, editing native and optimizing will yield the same results. As you start to add effects – color correction, green screen, gradients – using optimized media means your renders will be faster, your exports faster, and your image quality higher.
Larry
Larry, can you confirm that there is a performance improvement (faster) when exporting optimized media versus native media (XDCAM EX)?
I should have also mentioned, the cameras are tapeless, AVCHD. I just checked some video I imported, and it says under Codecs in the information window that it is H. 264
Thank you very much Larry. I will do that test with the USB drive. I have already captured very short bits using the USB drive, and it appears to have been successful. But these have been only 5-minute bits. I will try an 60-minute chunk and see how that goes. If there is a probelm in the import, FCPX will let me know, right? Give me one of those “dropped frame” warnings.
Correct – it should warn you if the drive is too slow. Since you are using AVCHD, which requires less than 5 MB per second, you should be OK.
I stress, however, that USB drives are, in almost all cases, too slow for editing on the Mac.
Larry
Thank you, Larry.
Just wanted to say thank you to Larry and indeed to all of the posters on this topic. My computer (brand new souped-up iMac) has been taking hours to render 4 minutes of green screened clips, so I came here for help. I knew nothing about transcoding. Now, and going forward, I plan to optimize all media that I import into a FCP X event.
So again, thanks!
Thanks for all the information!
When my project is complete and delivered, can I delete the proxy and optimized files so I’m just storing the original media in case I need to come back to it at a later date?
Would I just go into the media files and delete? Except original media of course.
Will FCPX have a problem with this?
Thanks!
James
James:
Use FCP X to delete render files (under the File menu) for your project. You can delete Optimized and Proxy files from the Events folder — HOWEVER, be sure you have safely kept your camera source files or you’ll have problems.
Larry
Would these “camera source files” also be the video in “original media”? Or would you have to keep the SDHC cards? The latter would not be practical for me, as I would be dumping the cards at the end of each day to use them again the next day.
Camera cards copied in their totality to your hard disk are the preferred method for storing tapeless media.
Larry
Thanks, Larry. So just drag and drop? Or is it useful to use the FCPX archive function?
Love your site Larry. So much to soak in.
I’m not sure if this is where I post a simple FCP X question, but I’ll do it since I’m here.
If I ingest into FCP X camera H264 files, I understand I’ll get a performance boost by optimizing the files to ProRes, but am I not double transcoding if my final output will be H264 ?
ie: h264 to ProRes 422 then back to h264 fo final output.
Craig:
You are correct – there’s a double conversion involved.
however, think of it this way. Imagine you have a one-cup measuring cup filled to the brim with water. Dump that into a one-gallon bucket. Add stuff. Swirl stuff around. You have plenty of room to add, remove, and remix stuff.
Now, when the time comes to pour it back into a one-cup measuring cup, you lose a LOT less than if you tried adding, swirling, mixing in the original one-cup container which had no room in the first place.
Larry
Thanks for the food for thought Larry.
It behooves me to investigate the benefits of ProRes 422, it seems it may be akin to converting a jpeg into tiff before editing in Photoshop.
Craig.
so there three possibilities to work with:
1. native files (which i can(should) cut only, but should not use for colour changes or effects because of long rendering)
2. optimised media (8-10 times larger files but performance and quality are very good, takes time to create but then everything is faster, especially rendering and exporting)
3. proxy files (only a quarter of the optimised file, good for smaller/older CPU, little less quality but also fast for export and rendering process)
is that correct?
my question is: where from does the project in the timeline (after editing) takes its information to create the export file??
is there a quality difference if i create an export file from “work with optimised” or “work with proxy” settings?
thanks for answering
If only Native files exist, the export will use them.
If both Native and Optimized files exist, the export will use Optimized
If only Optimized files exist, the export will use Optimized.
If both Proxy and Native – or Proxy and Optimized – files exist, the format that is exported will depend upon the preference setting that specifies whether you are viewing Proxy or Native/Optimized media.
Yes, there is a quality difference between Proxy and Native/Optimized files. Proxy is not as good.
Larry
ok thanks!! so proxy is only good for working with (more fluently on, for example, a small cpu notebook), but for export good quality i have to change to optimised work, right!?
thanks and regards from frankfurt germany
winfried
Hey folks, I recently stumbled on this article recently published about optimized and native media processing. I too have been going through understanding ingestion choices. I thought this series of data provided some interesting results. http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/final-cut/fcp-x-the-truth-behind-performance-with-optimized-media
I only just realized after doing my first 2 projects on FCPX (after years of FCP going back to version2), that in fact which file typed is checked in the Playback prefs makes a whopper of a difference. I assumed that “playback” meant only that…playback. But actually it completely determines the quality of Export. I specifically mean Share>Export, not going via Compressor (I’ve found this way much faster than Compressor, and the Compressor interface drives me crazy). I’ve had to re-export two projects because I kept seeing really inferior image quality on the final QT files and DVDs, and could not figure out why. Then I remembered this thread. Bottom line, if you want good looking files, you must have Optimized checked for the Playback prefs. If only Proxy is checked, they’re crappy. And there is a healthy 15-20% increase in output file size, along with way, way less artifacting.
Related question: if I transcode AVCHD via Toaster into ProRes LT, FCPX still wants to optimize them. Why does it force you into either normal ProPes or Proxy, and won’t let you live with a happy medium? LT is pretty darned good.
Where does a Project’s Render Format fit into this discussion?
I’ve only worked with original media (DV), with Playback Quality set to High Quality, so I don’t have any experience with Preference settings influencing export.
However, I’ve noticed that the Render Format of the Project determines the video format resulting from Export Media . . . Current Settings. The options are the different varieties of ProRes (but not Proxy), and Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2.
The Render Format can be set when the Project is created, and also changed by bringing up Properties and clicking on the wrench in the lower right of the Properties window.
I agree with John – no one has touched on the PROJECT RENDER settings. It’s seems to me that one could theoretically import and edit entirely with the original h.264 files. Once you’re done with your edit and want to get the added benefits of COLOR GRADING in ProRes422 color space, it seems that FCPX will automatically render your edit in ProRes422 according to these preferences. In that case, a color grade could be applied to the whole edit, and be automatically transcoded/rendered into ProRes 422 during the render process. After rendering, what would show up on the viewer and what would EXPORT would be the rendered Prores files and not the original h.264 files. This saves a lot of time and space of transcoding ALL your media, and in theory should enable you to edit NATIVE video formats like h.264, with automatic benefits of ProRes during render. Can anyone please confirm that this theory is correct and optimal for certain work flows?? Thanks!
Thanks for the reminder. I will attempt a test it on a little project I am editing right now. My “fear” is that once you change the setting will it make a ProRes of everything in the event browser? I will check to see what it does and report what I find.
Interesting concept, Mike, and I don’t know the answer. Worth a test.
Larry
Jeff:
Changing preference settings does NOT re-render clips in your Event Browser. Also, you need to select the specific clips you want to transcode, then select File > Transcode Media.
Unselected files are not touched.
Larry
Thanks for the timely response Larry. Yes, changing the Project Render Settings should NOT cause the whole timeline to be re-rendered. Nor will it transcode any of the other clips in your event browser. Changing a filter on a clip in the timeline should cause it to un-render and be re-rendered in the new Project render settings.
Touching on my original concept – I’m not sure of a way to TEST my theory. Coloring and rendering a h.264 timeline full of edits, should render ProRes422 files, since thats what the project render settings say. Unfortunately, FCPX render files appear to be a highly technical form of data files, and not movie files that can actually be inspected in their physical folder location. Any ideas how one might go about testing my theory – of having automatic ProRes advantages of color grading/compositing from rendering – while editing h.264 original native media?
Have researched this idea all night online and can’t seem to find anyone talking about Render Settings.
Thanks guys. If I understand correctly, we want the following:
1. Edit the native H.264 files
2. Once picture is locked, transcode ONLY the timeline clips to ProRes while maintaining all of the individual clips’ in and out points. (As opposed to rendering out the entire timeline as a single ProRes clip)
3. Then make the color corrections and effects on the timeline utilizing the new ProRes versions of the clip.
4. Then output that as you see fit.
The idea is to save on HD space and avoid CPU time transcoding all clips in the browser to ProRes before/during editing. Since editing H.264 does not present a performance speed hit. But we want the ProRes to take advantage of color/effect .
Really what we need is to be able to select clips in the timeline and then click File > Transcode Media. As of version 10.0.4 this is not part of it. Maybe we all can submit feedback regarding this.
Basically, it would be almost like a single click to go from your “offline” to an “online” edit.
How is this done in 4k workflows? Do they just take the time and create editable 2k versions, edit and get picture lock, then create an EDL to match the 2k with the 4k?
Thanks.
Upon further research I’ve been provided with more clarification on this subject. You can find more info here on the Apple community question I started: https://discussions.apple.com/message/18417093#18417093
Basically, my theory was correct, in that editing native NON-ProRes files, such as h.264 can be a solid choice for your workflow. Editing is still a breeze – chopping and cutting video together on the timeline etc. ALL Projects in FCPX automatically render into a ProRes flavor, which you can choose from in the Project Render Settings. (You can also choose uncompressed I believe). The default setting is ProRes 422. Any h.264 media on the timeline will render to ProRes422 as soon as any color grading of filters are applied. Each time a filter is changed, the clip will Re-Render from the original h.264 media. The final rendered clip is a rendered ProRes video.
This method allows you to save a lot of time and hard drive space up front by not having to transcode ALL of your media. You get the added benefits of grading/compositing in 4:2:2 color space as well. However, the downside is your render times will take longer because it is transcoding h.264 media for each render, instead of ProRes files. This method can be likened to a FCP 7 project – setting your Sequence Settings to ProRes422. Once any format of media in placed into that timeline, it renders in 4:2:2 ProRes. This is exactly what happens in FCP X. The only difference is the layout of the settings and the naming structure, project versus sequence.
The only thing you fail to mention here Larry, is that Proxy Files are 25% frame size on the disk. Though the Video inspector shows them as the source media’s original frame size.
If you take 1920 v 1080p frames and create proxy media FCP X builds 640 x 360p files. If we play those back they will look terrible (unless you use the small FCP X viewer only on a smaller screen). As you say, these files are in Apple Pro Res (proxy) which produces small file sizes, but can often ‘hold’ plenty of data for well shot H264 sourced footage.
My opinion is that to balance file size and output quality, we should be able to *Optimize* to ProRes 422 (proxy) full size, as well as ProRes 422. For anything shot as H264 the viewing quality is great when editing, and can often be used as a final output…. but it won’t eat your drives. This is particularly the case for documentary/event production, where large amounts of footage are the norm.
So my ideal workflow be
Shoot H264 for tiny files. These get wrapped as Quicktime and put in the Originals Folder
Optimise to 100% frame size Apple ProRes 422 (proxy) . Economical file sizes, lower bandwidth but look good for edit and output.
Proxy to 25% frame size for Multicam editing.
Re-render / Transcode Originals from Project to Apple ProRes 422 for output if necessary or required.
The hurdle is that FCP X *only* permits Optimizing to Apple ProRes 422.
To many variables cameras, computers, end results. Everyones situation is different.
Here is my situation. I shoot with Canon 5D Mk2 and a Canon 5DMk3 ( at the highest quality). I edit on a iMac configured as follows: 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7, Memory: 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3, Graphics AMD HD 6970M 2048 MB. The OS is Mac OS X 10.7.4. My output is HD 1920 x 1080 for publishing on YouTube or Vimeo. I desire the highest quality possible.
I mostly shoot nature. Lots of hours captured, a small percentage used. I also shoot a lot of stills. My current workflow is to import everything, movies and stills, into Aperture where everything is cataloged and rated. Aperture allows export directly into FCPX of both movies and stills. Just drag to the timeline. If I want just a portion of a movie clip I make the rough cut in Aperture, export to
a designated folder on my desktop for import and transcoding to ProRes 422 for FCPX. The desktop clip can then be trashed as the original still resides in Aperture. The media is than edited, color corrected etc., exported to Compressor for publishing to the web.
I solicit everyones comments on this workflow. Learning from constructive criticism!!
Thank you
Kent
Is it possible to transcode just a portion of a clip that is in the event browser?
Kent
No.
Larry
What a great feature transcoding a portion of a clip would be.
Kent
Very Thank you!